The Diary of a Goldfish Breeder 2022 (2)

Last year I made a plan to focus on improving my lines of Oranda. This year I will focus on ranchu breeding. Although I was preoccupied with Oranda last year, I managed to start early with my Purple Oranda improvement project. I bought a very bulky male ranchu. Unfortunately I did not document him well before he died. He was a large red white fish, with a very thick backbone. In fact, it was the backbone feature that attract me to buy him. The headgrowth was minimal, and no funtan. I mated him with a small, weak, and thin purple ranchu from my own line. But she had funtan feature in her headgrowth. I am sorry I take no picture of her, either. At that time, my purple ranchu vigor has decreased drastically, perhaps due to successive generations of inbreeding. My bad. I should be more responsible with my lineage.

Anyway, I took only one shoot from that mating pair. As expected, the results are all red white or red / orange fish. I selected the best few to prepare them for breeding. They looked promising. Most of them had strong and thick backbone. The majority also had wide body depth. Those are two features I am looking for. The back shape can be categorized into two: the round one and the flat one. The headgrowth is varied between minimal and lushly. Some might be categorized as hybrid or lionchu type of headgrowth. Satisfying stocks!

However, there is an alarming development. They have come of age, and no sign of mating activity! I have tried to induce the mating with no avail. At this point, I have no more purple ranchu in my collection. So, if these semi-purple fishes are sterile, then this purple ranchu project is doomed. My mind wanders far away. I already think about mating the male semi-purple with my female brown ranchu. This strategy can surely revive the purple ranchu. But, I only have two female brown ranchu left. And the same problem occurs. They have become so big with no sign of being productive. The most extreme thought I have is to start from zero again: to cross my purple oranda with ranchu. It will be another painful and long process..

Here are three male semi-purple ranchu:

There are two female, yet one is not in the best condition when I take these pictures. So, I only take this one:

This female has a problem with swimming straight. And she has a small tumour in her back. Yet, she is full of vigor, especially in the feeding time 😊 She is always the first one to devour the pellets.

Last month (Januari) I started to renovate my breeding area. I was compelled to move many tubs indoor. These fishes are among those I put indoor. It came as a surprise when in a certain morning I found them chasing this female! I was very happy.

I usually operate under the principle that the first eggs are weak. So, it is my custom to let go the first eggs. But in this case, I decided to collect the eggs. I fear that I might not have the second chance.

I hand-spawned them. I only used the first and second male, since they have the desirable round back bone shape. And they hatched well several days ago! Thank God!

After this first mating, they do not mate anymore. I quickly realize that they are not in a healthy condition. Perhaps due to the unfavorable climate. Many fishes fall ill at this moment. Right now, they are in quarantine. I am so glad I make the right decision to collect their first eggs.

These are some of the offspring:

I want to point out that the offspring of semi-purple goldfish will consist of two different color: the light one and the dark one. The light one is the purple color, which usually falls into 25% of the offspring. The dark one will become red or red white (50% of them are semi-purple and another 25% are true red / red-white). The following two pictures show the color comparison:

These two colors must be separated as early as possible since the light ones are usually weaker and cannot compete for food well with their darker siblings. I separated them one by one as soon as they are able to swim (the 2nd or 3rd day after hatching).

Yet, there is always one type of offspring that puzzles me. It has light color but there is a dark area in its body. I encounter this phenomenon always. Yet, I have never separated them to see what they become. I usually put them under the light color variation. But I cannot trace what they become when they grow into adolescence. I hope someday somebody can look into this in more detail. This is the appearance of the fish:

The latest update is that I have done my first culling yesterday. I have with me about 50 light color ones and 50 dark color ones. I am excited to see how their body quality will turn out.

Thank you for reading 😊

oranda, Purple goldfish, The Diary of a Goldfish Breeder 2021

The Diary of a Goldfish Breeder 2021 (23)

Update result on Purple Oranda Project.

There was a big gamble in this project. I mated my previous line of purple oranda with my basic material. That’s it. Other plans did not work. So, if this single effort failed, I would lost my purple oranda line. Well, I did not worry so much about it since I could still revive the line using my blue and brown crossing all over again.

I waited the offspring of this semi oranda to mature. They grew very fast and big, a good sign of gene vitality. One of them is, you guess it, Helen! When the time came, I mated Helen with her own sibling. The setbacks come in the form of color instability. Most of them turn white. So frustrating!

I collected only four offspring with stable purple color. Two of them had slight defect which I did not want to use as the next parent, so a new friend from India adopted them. Now I am left with two purple oranda. For my purpose, it is enough.

Here they are:

The top fish is male, the bottom one is female. Obviously the male is far more beautiful than the female in terms of the body shape, dorsal, and tail. A friend asks if I infuse ryukin genetics to him. No. In fact, I do not have any ryukin project. I do not even have any ryukin for a long time. Then, how come I get that round body with hump? I do not know. None of his parents nor grandparents have that shape. I think that is the beauty of breeding. Sometimes we get surprises along the way.

Anyway, I am satisfied with the current result. Doesn’t mean that there is no more to improve. On the other hand, there are lots of them! First, comparing the two siblings, I know that there is no uniformity. That alone is something to work for. Second, the headgrowth is uniformly lacking. Third, concerning the body shape, of course the male is better. But I would like a slightly longer body. About the tail, well, If I can maintain the tail quality of the male fish, it will be superb. Perfect tail, in my opinion. The dorsal fin is an issue. Yes, the male has an outstandingly high dorsal fin. It is nice to see. Yet, it looks fragile. I will be satisfied with lower but strong dorsal fin.

Before I forget, let me repost my previous line of purple oranda. Don’t you think I have made lots of improvement?

For friends who are still confused about the difference between purple color and blue color, I take this picture:

The fish in front is the purple, or also called lavender. The one in the back is the blue, or also called platinum.

These last weeks I have started to move on with this projects:

I mated the male purple oranda with my brown oranda (which I will update shortly). The purpose is to prevent the purple genetics from being saturated. That is why I do not plan to inbreed these siblings (purple with purple).
I mated the male purple oranda with Helen. Yes, I do a backcrossing to his mother. And I will be very cautious to plan my next move. My purpose is to get stable purple color in the shape of Helen
In my previous post (#22) I mentioned a white oranda (blue oranda that lost its melanin) with a desirable body shape. I mated him with Helen. Since the mating is between a genetically blue fish and a semi purple fish, the offspring results in a certain percentage of purple color.

Those three moves have been done. In the coming months I will have three lines of purple oranda which will give me more freedom to do the next crossing or to choose which line is the best. My only worry is the stability of the purple color.

Well, let’s see. I will update the results perhaps in the next five or six months.

Blue Oranda, Purple goldfish, The Diary of a Goldfish Breeder 2021

The Diary of a Goldfish Breeder 2021 (12)

It seems that my writing activity is not as active as my breeding activity. There has been a lot of progress in my breeding projects that I have not updated here. Let me try to catch it up.

In this occasion, I would like to update my Oranda breeding project since it is my main priority this year. To continue the Diary number 7 about the cross between Purple Oranda and my Basic Oranda Material in order to improve the quality of my purple oranda, I have selected a pair of offspring (semi purple Oranda) as the main parent fish. They are mature right now and have been bred several times. These are their pictures (before and after):

The fish above has grown big and becomes difficult to handle during hand-spawning. The body is strongly built. The tail wrinkles beautifully displaying the rose-tail style. The headgrowth has grown a little bit, but not impressive enough. This is the part that need to be improved still. Anyway, at this stage, I am satisfied with the quality so far. This female is productive. She is the main star during this year. I use her in several different projects. Let’s call her Helen the Oranda.

This male is from the same batch as the female one. Strangely his red and black pigments grow. At first, I thought he was in a stressful condition. But that was not the case. I mated this male with the main female to produce improved Purple Oranda. But complication arose. Most of the purple oranda produced lost their purple color and turned into white fish. I must discard them. Right now I am left with only two purple offspring which seem to retain their color. Right now the offspring is seven centimeters in size. I will post them later when they are bigger. So, with only two purple offspring left, I cannot say that this project is succesful. I plan to redo this mating once again to see if I can get more purple ones.

From my crossing of the Basic Oranda Material with my blue oranda of the same age as above fishes, I am blessed with one male semi blue oranda. Its phenotype is red, of course. I mentioned this project in my previous posts but had never posted any picture. So, I do not have the “before” picture. This is the recent picture of him:

The body is stout. The tail has some wrinkle genetics but it is not quite the same as the Helen the Oranda (the semi purple one). The headgrowth is slightly better than the result of the semi purple project. I mention this male because he is significant in producing my improved blue oranda. I mated this male with Helen which successfully resulted in improved version of my blue oranda. A small percentage of the offspring loses its blue pigmen but the majority are good. So, excitingly, the cross between the semi blue oranda and the semi purple oranda results in good blue oranda offspring. They are still young right now, roughly seven centimeters in size. I will update them later when they are bigger.

Concerning my brown oranda project, I mentioned my failure before. But this week, I have successfully crossed my previous version of brown oranda with Helen. I have lots of confidence of being successful, but it is too early now to claim that. I will update the result in the next several months.

One more thing. I have another female semi purple Oranda besides Helen. The color was grey, and now she turns totally black. I did not include her in my post number 7 at that time since I was not aware of her presence. I thought all have been mutated into red or red-white fishes. Only when I did the total water change I realize that there was one grey fish left. I was planning to cull her out, but right now she ends up as the only back up female from the semi purple project. Considering her strong black pigment, she might be a better candidate to produce purple color than Helen. Yet, she has slender body and weaker tail than Helen. I do not take her picture. I just think I need to mention her in case I use her in my project one day.

So, to conclude, the successful one at this point is the improved blue oranda project. The purple and brown ones still need to be repeated again. And another interesting side project involving Helen comes to mind which I will report in the next post. Please wait 😊

Blue Oranda, Brown Oranda, Purple goldfish, The Diary of a Goldfish Breeder 2021, Yellow goldfish

The Diary of a Goldfish Breeder 2021 (2)

Date: 24 Feb 2021

Out of the four projects to establish my line of blue, brown, purple, and yellow oranda, three are already on the way since January. Each project presents its own difficulty.

Blue Oranda

My previous line of blue oranda was not bad, though they have not acquired the Basic Material’s body form. But the quality was declining at the end of last year. Somehow, my latest offspring regained the old version of blue oranda form with its long and slim body shape. Well, it is not bad. Just that it goes out of my plan. I decided to let most of them go. I was surprised to find myself with only single blue oranda left in my pond. I think I took a great risk in selling them. If something bad happen to this last Mohican, I will lose my line.

It is a great relief when this blue female oranda laid eggs this January. I quickly paired her with my male Basic Material. I collected the second batch of the eggs and not the first batch since I believe the first batch is usually weak. I will not expect the blue oranda directly from this cross. The blue oranda will appear in the F2. So far, the offspring has a good body shape and erect tail. But it is too early to judge them. In my calculation, this F1 (and also F2) will not have the complete Basic Material body form yet. Their shape will be transitional. I will need to mate the F2 with the Basic Material form again (probably the offspring of the current Basic Material) to have my objective realized in the F4. The plan is so straight forward. If everything is on course, then this project will be successful in two years (assuming that each step needs 6 months for the fish to mature and ready to mate).

At least, the first step has been done, and is on the right track. What can go wrong is if all the offspring die, or all of them turn out to be of the same sex. That is why I think the wise course is to keep the female blue oranda with me till the production of F2.

Brown Oranda

This project is behind the schedule.

I kept a pair of brown oranda from my previous line. In January, I mated my female brown oranda with the male Basic Material. Yet the result was weak. In my analysis, the bad result was due to the female brown oranda getting old. So, I got rid of the offspring and executed plan B. Actually, I had the option to cross the male brown oranda with the female Basic Material. Unfortunately, the female Basic Material was unproductive at that time. Glad that I had plan B.

My plan B depends on the offspring from the previous brown oranda. Somehow, I managed to breed the pair before they became weak, and I raised six youngsters. Six was more than enough, I thought. Right now, they are three months old, not ready to breed yet. So, I need to postpone this brown oranda project perhaps for three more months until the young brown oranda mature. Sounds like a good plan, isn’t it? Too bad, two of them died last week due to disease, and three more died this morning. I am left with one youngster, which is still in medication right now. I do not know whether it will survive or not. And I have not checked its gender yet. Hopefully, this last fish will survive and I can run the plan B three months from now. But I must admit, this plan B is not safe right now.

What happens if plan B fail, that is, if the last fish dies also? I have plan C.

Last year, I did not make a clear plan for my breeding project yet. So, I bred whatever project that came to my mind. One of them was making a brown oranda with large headgrowth without bothering about the body shape. So, I crossed the brown oranda with my tricolor goosehead. The offspring have red white and grey coloration, and is now five months old, almost ready to breed. When I decided to establish my line using the Basic Material body form, I thought about getting rid of this brown goosehead project, since I did not want to have too many overlapping projects. Glad I have not done that. So, if plan B fails, I still have this plan C. If I need to execute this back up plan, then this project will take six to nine months longer. It will take two and a half or even three years to complete.

Purple Oranda

Things get a bit messy here. Before this project to establish my purple oranda line, I already started several projects. First, I already bred my original line and now I have six young purple oranda about three months old (the same age as my young brown oranda). Second, I already mated my original purple oranda with my tricolor goosehead oranda to create purple oranda with large headgrowth. Right now, the F1 is already five months old and ready to spawn. Third, I already crossed my original purple oranda with the Basic Material body shape (I use the parent of my current basic Material in the cross) and the F1 is seven months old. So, with these stocks, I can have plan A to C in readiness. But it is hard work to maintain all of them.

From these collections, which one should I use as my plan A?

Of course, the most logical thing is to use the third project. I already have the F1. I will just need to breed the F2 and it will yield purple oranda with transitional body form. Then I will continue with crossing the F2 and the Basic Material again, and will achieve my goal in the F4. This will make the project be finish in one and a half year! Sounds great!. And that was what I did. I mated F1 x F1 in January and came up with the F2. But I anticipate two problems.

I only have one female in the F1, and she has a defect in her tail. The tail is folded. And I am worried that this trait might be carried forward to the offspring. So far, the offspring (F2) looks fine. But it does not mean that they will be free from defect, since folded tail might occur later. Hopefully the result will be mixed, so I can select the non-defect one to use. If all of them are defect, then I have some options. I might still mate them with the Basic Material line in the hope that the gene from the Basic Material will correct the defect. Or I can start over using the original line, mating them with the Basic Material (basically, this means I redo what I have been doing half a year earlier) with the consequence of taking a longer time for this project to accomplish. I do not know which one is a better strategy yet. I think for now I will just observe, and decide later according to the situation.

The second problem has happened. Some of the F2 are losing its purple color and are turning into white! This is bad. How can this happen? In my analysis, it is because I use red-white Basic Material fish in the previous cross. The purple color is basically a variant of black pigmentation. It will be stronger if I use black fish in the cross instead of red-white fish (let alone a dominantly white one). Actually, there were some grey fish in the F1, but I got rid of them, thinking that the colored one (red-white one) is better. Now I realize my mistake. The grey one might yield a more long-lasting purple color (this is still my guess). Yet, this is already happening. I have the option to continue with this F2, hopefully selecting the strong purple color if possible; or I can introduce black oranda to the project. But the introduction of black fish will complicate the project, since the black fish is not the Basic Material.

Well, so far, I need to observe how the F2 turns out. Will they have folded tail? Will they become all white? And I will think of solution later on after the observation.

Yellow Oranda

About seven months ago I crossed my original yellow oranda with the parent of the Basic Material. I kept two females from the offspring (F1). The first one is free from defect and is my first choice to breed. The second one develops a folded tail. As weird as it may seems, my first choice does not lay eggs up to now. The productive one is one with defect. I have no choice but to breed the defect one (F1 x F1). Unfortunately, more than 90 percent are single tail! I do not know why. But my guess this has something to do with the original yellow goldfish that I use (yellow comets – single tail). So, I discarded this batch. Now I am waiting for the first choice to lay eggs. Meanwhile, I run the back-up plan.

The key to my back up plan is my original female yellow goldfish (actually, she is yellow-white, very interesting color). She is very productive. I have several options:

I can breed her with another original yellow goldfish
I can mate her with the existing F1 (which already contain part of the Basic Material genetics)
I can cross her with the Basic Material

Which strategy is the best? Option 1 is to retain the original yellow goldfish in case something happens and I need to start from scratch. Option 2 has the same purpose but with a better body shape (since the result will have 25% of the Basic Material genetics). So, by this logic, option 1 can be discarded. Option 2 is even better than the option 3 in terms of the lesser time to complete the whole project. It seems that option 3 can be discarded also. But there is one possible problem to worry about. How if option 2 results in many single tail goldfish? If that happens, then option 2 cannot be used. But at this state, I do not know what will happen. So, I just do both option 2 and 3 simultaneously. And I have done them last week, with good egg hatches. So, now there are two sub-projects going on in this yellow oranda project, while waiting for the F1 x F1 to happen.

To complicate the matter, I also have another side project, which is the yellow sakura project. My aim here is to create transparent scale oranda with yellow and white color. I do not know how they will look like. I am not sure if this can be achieved as I expected. But it is nice to try. I have started this project about six months ago and already have the F1. The appearance of the F1 is just a red-white sakura with a few black stains. But the genetics is half yellow. I already breed this F1 x F1 and has one yellow white transparent color oranda (with a few black stains). It is very young, still less than two months old, but it already looks yellowish-white. I need more time to confirm the color. Apart from this F1 x F1, I also mate the original female yellow in the option 2 and 3 with this male F1! I am hoping to get some more yellow sakura with less black stains. But this project does not incorporate the Basic Material’s body shape. So, this will be a side- project. I do not know if I am too greedy or if I can be justified doing this. But this certainly complicate my yellow oranda project – an interesting complication.

Blue Oranda, Brown Oranda, Purple goldfish, The Diary of a Goldfish Breeder 2021, Yellow goldfish

The Diary of a Goldfish Breeder 2021 (1)

Date: 19 Feb 2021

This year is the 21^st year of my breeding activity. In accordance to my New Year resolution to “celebrate my potential”, I see the need to be more focus in the area of my goldfish breeding. Though breeding is just a hobby for me – an obsessive one, I must admit – I need a clear direction. So, in the beginning of January, I assessed my breeding situation and made plans. The most feasible thing for me to do turns out to be establishing my line of Oranda.

I have been working with color experiment for many years already. I played with the blue, brown, purple, and yellow color in metallic goldfish. Right now, I have the blue oranda, brown oranda, purple oranda, and yellow oranda. I used many different sources to create them. For example, to create brown oranda, I crossed the brown pompom goldfish with red oranda; to create yellow oranda, I crossed yellow commet with red oranda. These different sources resulted in different oranda shapes. Though they are oranda, my brown and yellow oranda look very different. To make things complicated, I sometimes used several different lines of oranda in the crossing. So, for each type of color, I might have more than one shape variation. It is a bit overwhelming to maintain all of those variation.

Now it is time to simplify things. I want one uniform shape in all my colorful oranda variety. It does not mean that I will not keep other shapes. It just means that I should have my primary shape for oranda. It will be my line: my signature.

In order to do that, I need a basic material to work with. This, I think, is very important. I will induce this basic material into my colorful oranda so that I will have the blue, brown, purple, and yellow oranda with the shape as close as the basic material. Of course, the real basic material is only an idealism in my imagination. It does not exist. In reality, I need to find one close to my idealism. Or at least, a satisfying one. This non-existence of my ideal oranda creates a possibility to continually improve the basic material in the future.

For the past several years, I had my eye on a certain red-white oranda shape developed by a breeder friend. I especially admired its body form. I acquired that line, and mixed it with my fishes. The offspring becomes my basic material right now. In today’s diary, I would like to talk in length about this basic material. Let me first show the picture:

The Male

The Female

Basically, if I can create blue, brown, purple, and yellow oranda with such shape quality, I will be quite satisfied. And that is my current goal. Don’t you agree that those fishes will be gorgeous? These projects might take one to two years to complete.

Now let me go deeper.

What I admire in these two basic materials is, first of all, their body shape. The body length is medium; it has a good thickness (especially in the peduncle area); and it has a good body width (measured vertically from the back to the stomach). The female is slightly longer than the male. If I must choose the body length, I will choose the female. This preference of medium body length differs from the current trend of a shorter oranda. I know I do not really follow the trend.

The back curve is also good enough. It has a good height: higher than the headgrowth as required by a good standard, yet not as high as the oranda-ryukin hybrid. The current trend in the market is a very high oranda hump, which is fine with me, but I do not follow it. If I compare the male and female here, the male has a slightly better height.

My first concern about the body shape is that the peduncle of the female is positioned a bit upward / high. It makes the fish looks slightly imbalance – but only slightly. Fortunately, the male does not show this weakness. I think this weakness might occur in the offspring once in a while.

The bigger concern is the shape of the abdomen. The male has a good egg-shaped abdomen, though if it can be stretched a bit further back will be nicer. Yet, the female does not have the egg-shaped abdomen. I do not know yet if the stomach can be fuller later on in its development. It is yet to observe. But it is reasonable that some of the offspring might carry this weakness, since I saw the same case with the original line (from my breeder friend).

The scalation looks beautiful. The red color is not deep red, but is more intense than just orange color. There is a possibility that the red can be improved using color enhancer food. But the color is not my concern here, since I do not intend to breed the red or the red-white color as my main oranda. I will need to breed them still just to have enough basic material for the next breeding, but my main purpose is to have the blue, brown, purple and yellow oranda.

Concerning the headgrowth, I have come to a realization that my line will be more of the goosehead type of headgrowth. Looking back to the past several years when I have not decided at what type of headgrowth will my line be, I was already working many times with the goosehead type. And now, I am settled with it. The pictures above were taken two months ago. Now, the fishes have developed the headgrowth more. They have a larger growth on the hat area. Beautiful. The headgrowth was not excessive as in my tricolor oranda line, but it is not small, either. I might want to have a little bit more, if possible, so that the main identity of the fish (the headgrowth) will catch more attention when one sees it. In this basic material, the headgrowth is also seen below the eyes. I think it is the gene from the original line. For my line, I do not desire it and wish to minimize it later on. For now, I must expect that this trait (headgrowth below the eyes) might still occur in the offspring.

Last but not least, I must talk about the tail. The tail is of medium length (or between medium and long). It is a good length for me. I do not want the medium short or even a short tail. The degree of erection of the tail is good enough. It is not very spectacular, but it is considered good. The thickness of the tail tissue is good enough, though I will welcome a thicker one. There are three concerns about the tail. First, the lower tail lobe is not round. So, the lower tail cannot cover the anal fins well. The anal fins are too exposed. I also see this in the original line. And this weakness is uniform in the line. So, I need to plan a long-term repair for this, which is not easy if I cannot find this trait in the existing market. I have made several efforts, though. Yet, it is still a long process. For now, I must accept this weakness. Second, the lower lobes of the female (and some of its sibling) have small folds. The male does not have this. I guess this defect might occur once in a while in the offspring. Third, it was examined that the left and right lower lobes sometimes become imbalance when one of the lobes curls inward when swimming. The curl is not symmetric between the left and right lobes. Not all the sibling develops this, and I certainly do hope that this is not a hereditary defect. It is also possible that this type of tail needs special care so that it does not developed into imbalance curl inward. Perhaps this type of tail is not suited to deep water or strong current. I still need to observe this.

Anyway, after analyzing the basic material and see that they are obviously not perfect, I must say that I will be satisfied to have the basic material shape exist with blue, brown, purple, and yellow color. It is feasible for me to do. I also want to incorporate the tricolor into this basic material shape, but the difficulty is greater. I will save it for later.

cow ranchu, Purple goldfish

Cow Projects 2020

This is the second time I breed my cow ranchu. There are two ongoing projects. First, I cross my remaining cow ranchu (male) with his own offspring (or niece – since I used several male to produce her). Second, I cross the same cow ranchu with a female purple ranchu out of curiosity.

The first project (cow x cow) resulted in weak body shape offspring. But it is not my main interest. My interest is in the coloration of the offspring. At the age of roughly three months old, they are still mostly transparent white. Few have red patches. Some have black little dots and / or black patches “inside” (beneath the scale). Black marking on top of the scale (outside) is rare in these offspring. If they do, the black marking is in the shape of patches, not dots.

The fully white ones are nicknamed Casper by my friends. I was informed that these Caspers and the ones with black dots inside will develop the black color outside later on. It is certainly my hope to see it comes true. But so far, I do not see it coming. None of them can be claim as cow ranchu yet.

Let me refresh our memory with the pictures of the parent:

I do this first project twice. So I have collected two batches. Since the first batches were on medication when I took these photographs, I only managed to take pictures of the second batches. And these are the results. Each fish is displayed from left and right side.

The second project (cow x purple ranchu) has a different result. The offspring looks more like calico with a satisfying color composition. To compare this with the above project, this second project does not produce Caspers. They have black patches inside (not dots), but also white dots outside (not patches at this stage). I am eager to see how these dots will develop later on. And to compare with my previous project of crossing the cow with blue ranchu, I do not get any kirin-like color in this crossing (cow x purple) as I get one in the previous crossing (cow x blue). This comes as a surprise to me, since the blue and purple color are closely related. I expected to see a kirin-like coloration in this project, but it does not happen. I am still curious though about what will happen if I cross these offspring back to a purple ranchu.

These are the parent fishes:

And the offspring are:

I already cull out the fishes from these two projects. Those with weak body shape are eliminated (I give them freely to friends). So, the next update will not contain all of the fishes portrayed here.

Enjoy.

Brown Panda Ranchu, Chocolate Ranchu, Panda Ranchu, Purple goldfish

Brown Panda Ranchu

As a side result of the Purple Ranchu Project, I also get the Brown Panda Ranchu. Actually, it is the Purple Ranchu who demelanizes to produce a purple and white fish. The purple gets darker to produce the appearance of brown / light brown. This process is exactly the same as the demelanization process in the blue ranchu to become panda ranchu (Black and White Ranchu).

As this variety is still rare, I think it is better to document it here for future reference. Here are some pictures:

bp1wp bp2wp bp3wp bp4wp bp5wp bp6wp

Purple goldfish

Final Chapter on Purple Ranchu Project

I think I have come to the final stage of my project on purple goldfish. Starting with the report by Shisan C. Chen as my inspiration, I am finally able to create the purple ranchu. I called the color purple, since I heard that term being used when I was young and naive in goldfish breeding. Shisan C. Chen did not use that term. He just said that it is an intermediate color between brown and blue. I remembered my heart yearned for a more definite description or picture, “what sort of color is that? I would like so much to see it!”

In doing this project, I learned that there are two kinds of brown color in goldfish, and they are genetically different. I am sorry I cannot speak in a more scientific term since my training in genetics is very limited. But I know from my observation that when the two different brown are mated with blue, the result is totally different. I will not elaborate more on this since I have written about it several times on this blog.

So, this is the result:

Left side view:

Yes, it has brown stain, to make it a purple and brown ranchu. Some friends prefer to use the koi terminology to address this breed and call it ochiba ranchu. Yes, the head and perhaps the body could still be improved. I have focused much on the color and sort of neglecting the body conformation. But, for the color experiment, this is final.

Right side view:

Less brown stain on the right side views to make it a decent purple. I know for most people who are not familiar with this project, it is hard to differentiate this purple color with blue. So, let me give some comparison picture.

Comparison between purple and blue:

Yes, the purple has a reddish color compared to the blue.

Comparison between purple, blue and brown:

Hopefully, this project will be useful for the coming generation of goldfish breeders and hobbyist. Thank you for all the motivational support for this project. It is finished now 🙂

Purple goldfish

Purple and Brown

So far, my purple goldfish achieves satisfying results in pompom goldfish type. One of the results is the purple with brown stains, or in the koi terminology is known as ochiba.

Perhaps the brown stains are more desirable than the plain purple one. The stains create an interesting nuance, provided that the stains cover less than half the body.

As an overview, now we know how this color comes from. This color will appear in the F2 between blue and brown (orange based, as in brown pompom). The cross will yield few purple colored goldfish. If this purple color develops white color, then it can become brown and white. As the white color appears, the purple color will intensify and look like brown – yielding a brown and white goldfish. Some will eventually lose all the purple or brown color and become totally white / red and white. Some purple fishes do not develop white color, it will stay that way till the end. Some have brown stains like this, becoming this ochiba goldfish.

I tried to cross my purple goldfish with redcap oranda, in the hope that in its F2 I will get purple oranda. But the result is disappointing. I am sorry I forgot what happened with the results, but I remember to call off the project to start it again one day.

Purple goldfish

Updates on purple goldfish (Dec 11th, 2015)

As an overview, I was repeating the classic experiment by Shishan C. Chen. The experiment was crossing a blue metallic scale goldfish with a chocolate metallic scale goldfish. My slight modification was that I use the panda metallic scale goldfish instead of blue, noting that panda and blue color has a close relationship. I crossed a panda tosa with a chocolate pompom. I got the panda tosa from crossing panda telescope eyes (which is available in the market) with blue oranda.

The F1 was wild in color. Some turned into wild and orange, and some turned into totally orange color. No blue, no panda, no chocolate appeared at this stage. All have small pompom balls. Interestingly, their size became giants! I took my lesson that crossing far related types of goldfish may trigger the production of large sizes. (This inspires the possibility of doing projects on giant sized goldfish!)

This is the picture of the F1. Picture was taken 5 months ago, and the fishes have grown larger since. The bowl is 40cm in diameter.

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Then I did F1 x F1. The results were amazing! I got:

1st category: blue, blue-white combination (or we call it panda) and white (as the blue color totally disappeared)

2nd category: chocolate, chocolate-orange combination, and orange

3rd category: purple (the color in between blue and chocolate), chocolate-white combination (!), and white (as the chocolate color totally disappeared)

4th category: wild color

The shape were all pompom goldfishes. Some with large pompom balls, some with small ones.

I got rid of the wild color early. (And now I regret it, since I would like to know whether it can be used to create red-white pompom combination or not). So, I focused on in-breeding those 3 categories. My utmost desire was to breed and stabilizes the chocolate-white combination, since it is a rarer color compared to the panda. Unfortunately, they do not lay eggs till now even when all the other categories have spawned. My project of creating chocolate-white is in jeopardy! It is not funny to start all over again from the beginning.

The first pair to spawn was the panda. I am happy, since panda pompom is nowhere to be seen nowadays. I was thinking that these panda will produce 100 percent genuine panda color. That is what happen when I crossed panda color with red-white. When I crossed panda with red-white, the F1 was red-white/red. The F2 yield roughly 25 percent of panda. And when I crossed these panda with its panda sibling, the result was 100 percent panda / blue. So, I was hoping the same to happen in this project. Interestingly, the result is different!

Panda color produced from the cross between panda and chocolate, when mated with its panda sibling, does not only yield panda / blue color, but also purple / chocolate-white color in small percentage! I think this is an important matter. It needs someone knowledgeable in genetics to explain this. I do not have that expertise.

These are the chocolate-white goldfish aged roughly three months old. Some have turned totally white. These are the ones that still retain the chocolate color. Aren’t they lovely?

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First, I am glad that I do not need to rely on my 3rd category that do not spawn till now. I can still get chocolate-white combination from the panda pair.

Second, let me make clear of the relationship between purple and chocolate-white. For the start, it is better to understand that there are three color involved here: blue, chocolate and purple. Shishan Chen has discussed the difference between them. It involves the black pigmen, the red pigmen, their combination and distribution. Though I do really want to understand more about it and what involves that create the difference between blue and black, chocolate and red, they are not really my stuffs. (I am too stupid for that.) It is enough for me to know that purple is a color between blue and chocolate.

It is also important to understand that there are “base” color in goldfish. I have never read about this. This is my own terminology, that will need help from friends who understand more. This “base” color is what makes the difference betwen black and blue, and between chocolate pompom and purple. Let me explain. In the case of black and blue, we know that differences happen in the melanin pigment. Black ranchu has melanin pigment, so also blue ranchu. But somehow, that same pigment behaves differently in those two. One factor is the different pigment distribution. Is it the only factor involved? I do not think so. But I cannot say anymore about this. There is a second important differentiation between the black and blue, and I want to draw the attention to this. Their “base” color is different. In black ranchu, if the black color fades, we will see an orange color. That is what I mean by base color. Even in Thai black ranchu where the black color does not fade, if we try to scratch the black skin, we will see the orange color underneath the black coat. But in blue color, if the black (or blue) pigment fades, what we will see is white color. So, this is the base color of blue fish. In black ranchu, as the melanin fades, we will have black-gold color (or black-orange), while in blue ranchu, as the melanin fades, we will have black-white color (or panda). So, the base color is different.

The relationship between chocolate pompom and purple pompom has something to do with this “base” color. The base color of chocolate pompom is orange. That’s why, when the chocolate color fades, we will see the orange as the base color. The fish can turn into chocolate-orange,or totally orange fish. We witness the same behavior with black and black-gold fish. In purple goldfish, the base is not orange, but white! So, when the purplish color fades, the fish will have purple-white color combination. And in this kind of combination, the purple color will be more intense, the pigmen distribution will be thicker, and the purple will look like chocolate. That is why I call the purple-white color combination as the chocolate-white. It is the same case with panda, where the blue-white combination is called black-white since the blue is getting thicker and looking like black.

This answers my second point, that is about the relationship between purple and chocolate-white. When the purple color does not fade, the fish will stay purplish. When the purple fades, the fish will become chocolate-white, and some will even turn into totally white.

Third, there seems to be several spectrum of chocolate color in the chocolate-white combination. I am still not sure about this. I am not sure of whether they are worthy to be identified separately.

Fourth, the good news is, when I crossed chocolate pompom with chocolate pompom resulted from this project, the result is not 100 percent chocolate, either! There are purple color also! The same behavior I examined from crossing panda with panda from this project.

Fifth, I have not had chance to cross purple with purple, or purple-white with purple-white. If I do this, will the result yield several panda and chocolate also, or will they be 100 percent purple and purple-white?

Sixth, it will be nice to create purple-white ranchu! A project that is enough to occupy my time for several years ahead!

hermantogoldfish

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Category Archives: Purple goldfish

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Final Chapter on Purple Ranchu Project

Purple and Brown

Updates on purple goldfish (Dec 11th, 2015)