The Diary of a Goldfish Breeder 2021 (22)

Update result on Blue Oranda Project.

Near the end of the year, I think it is time to update the results of my projects. Let me start with Blue Oranda.

This is the last of my previous line of blue oranda:

To analyze this previous line, I can draw several conclusion. First, it lacks good headgrowth. Second, the peduncle area is a bit stretched (elongated). Third, it lacks body width (too slim). Fourth, the tail has an erect angle though not superb quality. Fifth, dorsal looks fine. Sixth, the color is good and stable. And seven, the abdomen has a bad shape (it is not full).

I mated this previous line of blue oranda with two fishes: Basic Material line and Helen.

These two are the results of the cross between the previous blue oranda line with my basic material:

Analyzing these two, I think there is an improvement from the previous line. The improvement takes place in the shorter (more proportional) peduncle area, better body width, and better abdomen shape. Concerning the headgrowth, there is no improvement yet. The tails vary. The top fish (sex unknown) is better than the bottom fish (male) in terms of the tail erect angle and body width. The color is stable. Remembering that this project is a two year project and right now is half way, I think I can safely conclude that there is already an improvement in the line. The remaining tasks to improve this new line (blue oranda line 1) is to add more headgrowth, to make the body width and tail angle more uniform in a better quality.

This piece is the result of crossing the previous blue oranda line with Helen:

Yes, the color is white. This is a blue oranda that lost its melanin. The problem with this crossing is the instability of its color. Most turn into white. I redo this cross many times, collecting the few stable one. So, yes, I have some more offspring from this cross, but they are still young and I do not take their pictures yet. I will wait for perhaps a couple months to observe them. Meanwhile, this white fish is the only mature fish I have from this cross. When I was about to cull him, I realize that he has certain attractive features. The body shape is very interesting. It has body width, it is not short, and it has high hump (high enough for an oranda). I notice that there is a current trend in the market to have oranda with ryukin-like body. This white fish also has almost such a high hump, but with a longer body which makes it unique. So, to conclude about the body shape, I think this white fish has a high curve, very good body width, proportional body length (not too short nor too long), and still have a beautiful abdoment shape (round, touching the tail). The headgrowth is slightly better than the new line 1. The tail has a better angle and it is rose-tail style. The drawback is on the lower lobes of the tail. When he swims, the lower lobes will move inside.

If possible, I would like to cross this white fish with the new line 1. If the first fish of new line one turns out to be a productive female, this can be done. Perfect. But I am not sure with its sex for now.

What I will do for now is to wait for the rest of the blue offspring to mature. I was hoping to see blue fish with the quality close to this white oranda. If I can get such offspring, then new line 1 can be terminated. I will just use the new line 2.

So, this is the update of my blue oranda project for this year. I am happy with the result. Next, I will also update the result of my other oranda projects.

oranda, The Diary of a Goldfish Breeder 2021

The Diary of a Goldfish Breeder 2021 (20)

Helen was born at the beginning of this year. She is not one year old yet. Interestingly, she has become the primary female in my breeding project this year.

Close to the end of this year, there are three projects left for Helen before she retires:

Deep red oranda project
Basic Material Preservation project
Purple Oranda project

In this essay, I will update the first project.

In my childhood, I had one occasion to keep a special red-white oranda. It was special because the red color was so intense. It was not orange nor deep orange. It was truly red. I have never seen such an oranda again ever since. If we examine Helen, she is an orange and white fish. In the world of goldfish, we call it red and white, since we believe the orange can be improved by giving her certain ingredients. But even with a good color enhancer diet, it is hard to improve Helen’s color in my city where the general climate is warm (tend to be hot). It is easier to achieve deep red coloration in the colder water. Anyway, I do not use color enhancer often. I use it mostly during the color mutation stages.

I felt lucky when one of my red-white butterfly goldfish offspring developed an intense red color. It was an anomaly in the batch. There was only one individual. I named him Beni. The red color is so striking even without color enhancer diet. I have used Beni to improve the color of my butterfly goldfish (it is under way). I have also mated Beni with my semi-tosakin goldfish with the long term purpose of creating tosakin with deep red coloration. And now, I am thinking of reviving my childhood special oranda!

So, I mated Beni with Helen at the end of last month.

Their feature differences are in the eyes, headgrowth, and tail shape. Adding color to the list, the project becomes a four-level difficulties. Well, the body shape is certainly different, but I think it will not contribute much to the difficulty. So, with this difficulty level, I do not think my special oranda will occur directly in the F1.

I predict I will get some intense red color offspring in F1, but not in the shape of a decent oranda. The protruding eyes are usually recessive to the normal eyes, so I expect normal eyes in the F1. I will also expect minimal or no headgrowth. From my experience, such a cross between a goldfish with headgrow and without headgrowth will result in no headgrowth in the initial stage. But as the fish gets older, it will develop small headgrowth. Let’s assume that I will get no headgrowth in the F1. The tail might not be as erect as I desire. The body shape might be so so. I will just pick the intense color ones to be the next parent fish.

At this stage I have two choices:

I can cross F1 x F1
I can cross F1 with another oranda

The first choice will strengthen the desired red color, but will let the improvement of oranda body conformation to chance. In fact, I might have some telescope eyes as the result of the recessive gene meeting. The headgrowth and tail might come variably, but might not even close to the desired standard. If this course is taken, the next step is to pick the F2 (already with deep red color) that resembles oranda as close as possible. From there, I can cross the F2 with another oranda.

The second choice will let me improve the body conformation to oranda standard. But, I do not know about the coloration. At this point, I need to admit that I do not know how the deep red color and the orange color will interact when they are mated. I know about yellow x orange, or blue x orange. They follow simple Mendellian rule. I also know about black x orange, which resulted in a spectrum between black and orange (namely: black, semi-black, grey, black-gold, and orange). But different crossing between black and orange can result in different color, though still within that spectrum. But I do not know what will I get if I cross deep red and orange. My guess is that it might behave similar to the black x orange. There might be a spectrum of color in the result (namely, orange, reddish orange, and intense red). But my F1 is not purely deep red since it is a cross between red and orange already. Will that mean my chance of getting intense red will be very slight in the F2 or even none? This course might give me a better oranda conformation but jeopardizing the intense red color.

Which course should I take?

Well, I still have half a year to come up with an answer. Plenty of time. But if you have any insight for me, please write a comment. I will be thankful.

Brown Oranda, The Diary of a Goldfish Breeder 2021

The Diary of a Goldfish Breeder 2021 (18)

One unsuccessful attempt in the beginning of this year was the Brown Oranda project. Gladly I have the opportunity to resume the endeavor right now. I still keep few offspring from my original brown oranda line as a back up. One of these have matured into a charming male ready to mate.

This male is not perfect. There is a defect in its tail where the left and right upper lobes do not align well. The left tail is higher than the right one. The body is a bit slim, and one of the aim in this improvement project is to create a more stout body. The headgrowth is still minimalist. Yet he is very photogenic. I cannot help to post his many beautiful pose for us to enjoy.

What I learn about the brown color is that there is a spectrum in the color. There is the dull brown color which is almost undifferentiable from the wild color. Well, most of the brown color look grey when they are in the pale state, such as after being medicated. But they will turn darker into brown color. The one that can only achieve dull color closer to the wild color is not a good fish. There is also the dark brown color, which is nice. But my favorite is the brown color that resembles tea color such as this male. For me, it is the best.

Let us enjoy this guy:

This pair this male with Helen. This has taken place several weeks ago, and now the offspring is already two centimeter in size. In my prediction, some of the offspring will have stout body like Helen the mother. Most will have beautiful tail since both parents have good tail though in a different style. But the headgrowth will still be minimalist since both parents are like that.

How about the color? Yes, Helen is a red fish in its phenotype. But she carries 50% of purple color genetics. So, Helen is a semi-purple goldfish. We need to remember that purple is a color that emerges from the crossing between brown and blue. So, when the purple genetics meets the brown genetics, I will directly get some brown in the offspring.

When the eggs hatched, they can be distinguished into two color: the dark one and the light one. I am sorry I do not take their picture. The dark one is just like the usual fry which will turn into wild / red color. The light one will turn into brown or purple – they can be distinguished at such an early state but this is very hard to do. So, I just separate the light ones from the dark ones at day 1 after they can swim. Why do I need to separate them so early? Because the light one is weaker. Most of them cannot compete with the dark one for food, resulting in malnutrition and stunted growth. Separating them as early as possible will let the light colored fry to develop better. I cull out the darker ones at this stage.

Will I have a good tea-colored offspring? This is hard to predict. In my experience, such a crossing sometimes creates a weak brown color where the fish looses the melanin totally. The fish turns into a complete orange color. If this happens, it will be a set back to the project. Some turns into brown color with the spectrum ranging from the pale / dull ones, the tea-colored ones, and the deep brown ones. There is a special case where the fish turns into a brown and orange fish (two colors) or a complete orange color but then the melanin grows. So, instead of loosing the brown color, the fish regains it and stay in a pleasing two tones color of brown and orange. This is a desirable result.

The pictures below are from my old files (2018). Pardon the bad photography. These pictures illustrate the transformation of the special case where the brown color grew.

The end.

The Diary of a Goldfish Breeder 2021

The Diary of a Goldfish Breeder 2021 (17)

One feature that I want to include in my line of Oranda is the Goosehead type of headgrowth. In the book “Goldfish Appreciation” (By Steven Tong & Hermanto), we mention the principle of Main Identity. And the main identity of an Oranda is its headgrowth. Many breeders may not be aware of this principle such that when they try to improve their lines of Oranda (mostly by cross breed), they forsake the headgrowth. Well, one example of such a breeder is myself. Helen, as my main female Oranda this season, is a result of such attempt. In the effort to produce better body form and tail shape, the headgrowth becomes smaller in size.

Not a bad fish, right?

But the headgrowth is not the highlight of the fish. When we see Helen from sideview:

the first thing that catches our attention might be the stout body, or the beautiful tail, but not the headgrowth. In the principle of Main Identity, Steven and I insist that first impression we get from an Oranda should be the beauty of its headgrowth. Helen does not have this highlight.

Let us compare Helen with this Oranda:

This fish is also mine. At the first glance, people will almost always notice its headgrowth. So, the fish satisfies the requirement of the Main Identity Principle. Too bad, the body and tail are not as good as those of Helen. (This fish is not with me anymore by the time I write this blog)

I must mention that the book also talks about the principle of Overall Beauty. By this we mean that after the Main Identity get the right attention, the body and tail should also be good to make overall fish beautiful. Some breeder fall into the other spectrum of the trap by putting all the effort to make eye-catching headgrowth but by neglecting the body form and tail shape. This will not do.

So, my aim is to create a balance between the principle of Main Identity and Overall Beauty. I want to improve the headgrowth of Helen’s offspring. How? By crossing Helen with other Oranda that has good headgrowth. Luckily, I have two males for this purpose.

But before that, let me explain why I choose the goosehead type when obviously there are many other headgrowth type equally beautiful. First, it is purely personal preference. I just fall in love with the goosehead type. Second, I want to differentiate my line from the existing ones in the market.

Now, these are the two goosehead I have.
First male:

Second male:

These two males are the halfway result to improve the goosehead tricolor Oranda body and tail forms. Forgive my bad memory, I think they are the cross between the tricolor Oranda with my purple Oranda. That is why their body and tail are not very weak, though not as beautiful as those of Helen. Unfortunately, I have no compatible female for them. I end up with only these two males. That is why my best choice is to cross them with Helen.

The offspring has been three days old. A small portion of them is light in color, which means they are either purple or brown Oranda. The rest are dark color, which can become wild color or red like Helen. If some becomes tricolor, it will be a big bonus for me. But I do not know about this.

Well, wish me the best 😊

dancing queen, The Diary of a Goldfish Breeder 2021

The Diary of a Goldfish Breeder 2021 (14)

This is a tribute to my Dancing Queen. Several years ago I tried to create a side-view version of Tosakin. I nicknamed the fish as the Dancing Queen to appreciate the beautiful playfulness of the tail. I successfully created an erect tail with split, and the tosakin flips could be enjoyed from side-viewing.

The tail was really a beauty. Yet, the body was weak and plain. The color was just orange or grey. I tried to improve the body and the coloration with this result:

The body was improved. The orange and white color was certainly an improvement. The tail seemed to be slightly smaller, yet still a decent one. However, it seemed that the market did not respond well. Besides that, I have a lot of other projects on goldfish. So, I struggled hard to let the project go. This fish was the last (and best) Dancing Queen I had, and I let a friend adopted her without leaving any offspring.

Well, perhaps it is natural for a breeder to have a deep attachment to his creation. I was ready to let go. But I still mated the uncle of the last Dancing Queen (a grey one, and sorry I did not take any picture of it) with an Oranda. I did not even remember which Oranda I used. This was not a planned project. And I did not expect anything. Such a cross might yield nothing of any worth. So, this cross was an uncalculated project, ready to be discarded at any moment.

Surprisingly, something good came out of this project! I did not expect to be able to get a decent oranda with dancing queen tail from the first attempt of the crossing. It was almost impossible, I thought. But the fact speaks otherwise. I ends up with two decent oranda with very beautiful Dancing Queen tail style! Yes, the color was only grey, but I think they are lovely.

This one is the first fish:

This is how the tail looks like when swimming (when the tail collapsed)

And this is the second fish:

There are oranda with similar type of tail in the market produced by Thailand breeders. They named the tail as Orchid tail. I do not know about the history of it, but I might walk in the same path as them.

This is the topview appearance of the fishes:

The appearance of these two disrupted my current oranda project. I already had my Basic Material Oranda. But the tail was Rosetail type (wrinkle tail). Compared to this Dancing Queen tail style, I think I face a great temptation to incorporate this type of tail into my Oranda. There is no way I ignore such a beauty.

So, last week I mated Helen the Oranda with these two 😊

Remember Helen?

Sometimes Helen shows a bit of tail flips similar to the Dancing Queen, though not always. I think this is a good sign. The mating between these fishes might yield an outstanding result.

I am enthusiastic to see the results 😊 Perhaps my Dancing Queen will evolve into Oranda with Dancing Queen tail shape.

Blue Oranda, Purple goldfish, The Diary of a Goldfish Breeder 2021

The Diary of a Goldfish Breeder 2021 (12)

It seems that my writing activity is not as active as my breeding activity. There has been a lot of progress in my breeding projects that I have not updated here. Let me try to catch it up.

In this occasion, I would like to update my Oranda breeding project since it is my main priority this year. To continue the Diary number 7 about the cross between Purple Oranda and my Basic Oranda Material in order to improve the quality of my purple oranda, I have selected a pair of offspring (semi purple Oranda) as the main parent fish. They are mature right now and have been bred several times. These are their pictures (before and after):

The fish above has grown big and becomes difficult to handle during hand-spawning. The body is strongly built. The tail wrinkles beautifully displaying the rose-tail style. The headgrowth has grown a little bit, but not impressive enough. This is the part that need to be improved still. Anyway, at this stage, I am satisfied with the quality so far. This female is productive. She is the main star during this year. I use her in several different projects. Let’s call her Helen the Oranda.

This male is from the same batch as the female one. Strangely his red and black pigments grow. At first, I thought he was in a stressful condition. But that was not the case. I mated this male with the main female to produce improved Purple Oranda. But complication arose. Most of the purple oranda produced lost their purple color and turned into white fish. I must discard them. Right now I am left with only two purple offspring which seem to retain their color. Right now the offspring is seven centimeters in size. I will post them later when they are bigger. So, with only two purple offspring left, I cannot say that this project is succesful. I plan to redo this mating once again to see if I can get more purple ones.

From my crossing of the Basic Oranda Material with my blue oranda of the same age as above fishes, I am blessed with one male semi blue oranda. Its phenotype is red, of course. I mentioned this project in my previous posts but had never posted any picture. So, I do not have the “before” picture. This is the recent picture of him:

The body is stout. The tail has some wrinkle genetics but it is not quite the same as the Helen the Oranda (the semi purple one). The headgrowth is slightly better than the result of the semi purple project. I mention this male because he is significant in producing my improved blue oranda. I mated this male with Helen which successfully resulted in improved version of my blue oranda. A small percentage of the offspring loses its blue pigmen but the majority are good. So, excitingly, the cross between the semi blue oranda and the semi purple oranda results in good blue oranda offspring. They are still young right now, roughly seven centimeters in size. I will update them later when they are bigger.

Concerning my brown oranda project, I mentioned my failure before. But this week, I have successfully crossed my previous version of brown oranda with Helen. I have lots of confidence of being successful, but it is too early now to claim that. I will update the result in the next several months.

One more thing. I have another female semi purple Oranda besides Helen. The color was grey, and now she turns totally black. I did not include her in my post number 7 at that time since I was not aware of her presence. I thought all have been mutated into red or red-white fishes. Only when I did the total water change I realize that there was one grey fish left. I was planning to cull her out, but right now she ends up as the only back up female from the semi purple project. Considering her strong black pigment, she might be a better candidate to produce purple color than Helen. Yet, she has slender body and weaker tail than Helen. I do not take her picture. I just think I need to mention her in case I use her in my project one day.

So, to conclude, the successful one at this point is the improved blue oranda project. The purple and brown ones still need to be repeated again. And another interesting side project involving Helen comes to mind which I will report in the next post. Please wait 😊

statistics

A bit of Stats: transparent x metallic scales

I have crossed metallic scales goldfish with transparent one many times. The offspring consists of both types of scales. But I never counted how many for each of them. Since my concentration was mainly to keep the transparent ones, I just cull out the metallic ones without counting. Now I am curious to know the statistics.

I happen to cross my yellow transparent scale oranda (female – left pic) with my yellow metallic scale oranda (male – right pic):

I quickly realize that I made two mistakes which might affect the accuracy of the result. But it already happened, anyway.

First, the counting will be more accurate if I kept all the offspring from the beginning. I did not do it since I had no intention to count at that time. So, I have done the first culling, which is sorting out one-week-old hatchlings with tail defects (seen from above) and small sizes. Assumptions can be made, whether the number of both types being culled out are the same or the percentage of both types being culled out are the same (as the result I will report shortly), but both assumptions are risky. This is one of the weakness.

Second, I forgot whether the transparent scale fish carries the metallic genetics (a cross between transparent and metallic scale parentage) or it is pure transparent already (a mating between transparent and transparent). I fear this might influence how the result will be interpreted.

Admitting these weaknesses, I counted the offspring when they are about three weeks old. Here are some samples of them (not the total number):

Transparent scales: 73 (53.3%)

Metallic scales: 64 (46.7%)

Looking at these numbers, the transparent scales are slightly more than the metallic scales. But I think the difference is not significant, considering the first mistake. I think it is safe to conclude as a rough breeding guideline that the cross between transparent and metallic scales will yield both types of scales with 50:50 ratio.

The Diary of a Goldfish Breeder 2021

The Diary of a Goldfish Breeder 2021 (11)

I have refined my breeding strategy.

First, let me update the projects I have started at the beginning of this year: the blue, brown, purple, and yellow oranda. I have crossed my original fishes with the better quality oranda which I labeled as my Basic Material (orange in color). The purpose of the project is to improve the quality of my blue, brown, purple, and yellow oranda.

I have crossed each type of color with the Basic Material. Unfortunately, not all went as planned. The successful one is the purple oranda project. The crossing produced male and female semi purple oranda (right now they are in orange and red white color). I have mated these F1 x F1 on this June and have kept the purple fry only. So far so good. It is a different story with the blue cross.

The cross between blue and basic material yields good quality semi blue offspring. Sadly, they are all male. I cannot continue the project with this condition. (I still keep one female blue oranda from my original line as a back up, though.)

The brown and basic material cross failed miserably. Due to the overload in my capacity, I could not take care the offspring well. I must let them go. (I still have brown oranda from two other lines which I can use as back up.)

The yellow project produced so many single tail, which I must cull out. So, this project also failed. (Of course, I still keep some yellow for back up plan.)

Besides these crossing, I also paired my Basic Material with each other because I might use them later on. This line is important for me. I must manage them well.

Second, I just realize that I do not have to make four separate projects as mentioned above, actually. The blue, brown, and purple are somewhat related. This fact can simplify my breeding strategy a lot. Let me explain.

To review a bit, this chart explains the basic:

The blue and brown are not related. When they are crossed, the F1 is grey in color, which sometimes turn into orange fish. But when the grey is paired with each other (F1 x F1), the result will be blue, brown, purple, and grey. I always cull out the grey. This is how I get my purple goldfish.

So, although the blue and brown are not related, the blue is somewhat related to the purple. The brown is also related to the purple. Here we see that the key is the purple goldfish. When we crossed the blue and purple, the result will be blue and purple right on the F1. The same case happen in the cross between brown and purple. We will immediately get brown and purple.

So, what I need to cross with the basic material is actually only the purple. When I get the desired result (the purple with higher quality), I can cross the purple with the blue and the brown. Instead of mating each color with the basic material (three projects), it is sufficient for me to cross the purple only. This simplify my projects a lot, doesn’t it? This is the refinement of my breeding strategy.

The yellow oranda is a different case. This color has no relation at all with the blue, brown, or purple. So, this project must stand on its own. I must cross the yellow with the basic material.

Thank you for reading 😊

The Diary of a Goldfish Breeder 2021

The Diary of a Goldfish Breeder 2021 (9)

Yellow Color in goldfish is a fascinating project for me due to its rarity. My main project is to create Yellow Oranda (or better, Yellow and White Oranda), which I have succeeded. This variant falls in the category of Metallic Scale. Now my task is to improve the quality of the fish in terms of its headgrowth, body shape, and tail.

A side project in this Yellow Adventure is to create Yellow and White Transparent Scale Oranda. I nickname the variant as the Yellow Sakura Oranda. I did this out of curiosity to satisfy my imagination. In fact, I have a doubt about its market acceptance. Can the fish be clearly differentiated from the common Calico Oranda and its variations?

I started this project last year. I mated my Yellow Oranda (metallic scale) with a Calico Oranda. The F1 were Sakura in its Phenotype. I had a chance to inbreed the F1 this January. Too bac, most of the offspring have single tail and I must cull them out. I was left with only four fishes, which grow into different colors. One become Sakura with strong red color, one is a black and white fish, another one is a color between yellow and orange, and the best one is clearly yellow with white and black / blue spots! This last one is what I am interested in.

The yellow color is pale, but it is clearly yellow. However, it is a bit hard to capture in camera. I must do some editing to try to bring out the real color. I cannot say it is nice, but surely it is an interesting combination when combined with the white color. My surprise comes from the melanin showing up in the combination in the form of blue and black spots. I thought the melanin pigment will go away when the fish grows up. But it stays.

Well, the fish is not a perfect one. The middle tail does not split (but invisible from the side viewing). Yet the body and tail shape are not bad. Concerning the color, let the reader be the judge.

The Diary of a Goldfish Breeder 2021

The Diary of a Goldfish Breeder 2021 (7)

This is the update of my Purple Oranda Project. The aim of the project is to improve the quality of my Purple Oranda. The quality of my previous Purple Oranda was skinny fish with minimal headgrowth and ordinary tail. On January this year, I started to cross it with a bulkier Red (Orange) Oranda that has a better headgrowth and the so called rose-tail, which I called my Basic Material. Since the Purple Color is recessive to the Red color, the offspring are either red (orange) or red-white (orange-white) in their phenotype. The F1 show improved body, headgrowth, and tail quality. But the quality is not uniform as will be seen in the pictures below. The Basic Material quality has not been achieved at this stage.

The current results are fast growing. I moved them outdoor last week to see if they were ready to mate. I am a bit worried that I cannot see any visible female when I inspect them. I can see some males with white particles on the pectoral fins. But I do not see any protruding anal in the rest of the fish without the white particles. I do not know if they are immature males, or females, or infertile fish.

The current state does not produce Purple Color yet. My main strategy to produce an improved Purple color is to mate F1 x F1. Yet, the worry I mention above might be a hindrance. For the back up strategy, I still keep a productive female from my previous Purple Oranda. I can mate her with the F1. But this move might decrease the quality I have seen in the F1. Well, at least I still have the back up plan intact. In the next six months or less I might be able to update the results.

This is the productive female from the previous breed. Notice that the body tends to be slim, the headgrowth is minimal, and the tail shape is ordinary. It is considered a poor quality Oranda. But the color is beautiful.

And these are the F1. Notice that the bodies are bulkier, and the headgrowth are better thought still small. The tail show some wrinkles in some of them, as the characteristic of the rose tail (or semi rose-tail). One of them (number 4) shows a large hump as in Ryukin. I think this is an outlier and I will not use it if I do not have to.